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Mar
10
2010
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The events of the past two weeks (here, here, here, here and here) have clarified the BBC’s stance on allowing interoperability with open-source iPlayer clients. I have therefore decided to withdraw get_iplayer with immediate effect.
Ian Hunter’s post (Managing Editor, BBC Online) provided very clear guidance on the way the BBC feels about open-source applications accessing iPlayer streams. I have no desire act against the BBC’s wishes in this respect.
The BBC iPlayer is built on many open-source products and yet, in this case, they have failed to let open-source clients access the very same service. The BBC have clearly not followed the spirit of open-source here.
From the outset, exactly 2 years ago when I developed get_iplayer, my intentions have been to never harm the BBC but to just provide a convenient way for me to watch iPlayer programmes on my TV with the hardware that I own. However, the BBC clearly considers such methods to be somehow detrimental to their service and therefore with great regret I have decided to cease development.
I sincerely hope that, in the future, the BBC will make steps to support open source given that they have gained so much from it.
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Thank-you for your fantastic effort over the couple of years you have been developing this. I am very sad to see it go.
I was wondering whether you had considered removing the download element from the script and transforming the script into one that simply informed users when a program matched their parameters was available to view on iPlayer.
This is how I have been using your script for months… I have a number of search terms that I look for every day. I used to run your script and it would tell me how many programmes there were and where to find them on the iPlayer site that matched my multiple search terms. It was simple and quicker to use than the official site which is why I used it.
If get_iplayer transmogrified into something like this I would certainly continue to use it.
Well I suspect that use case will not break in a hurry. Anyone can fork the code and change it as they see fit within the terms of the GPLv3 of course.
See this little mash-up I threw together for you: http://linuxcentre.net/projects/iplayer-search
It’s just a drill-down search page for iPlayer and podcasts…
That’s really bad news. This is one of the most useful pieces of software ever. I must admit to be very dissapointed that you are completely discontinuing the software since it still works fine for radio streams.
The beeb are in a bit of a pickle here.
I don’t personally believe that “appeasing the content creators” is such a terrible thing, bearing in mind that they are broadcasting their programs over the internet. Regardless of what people think, the BBC have a legal obligation and I can understand perfectly that they’re not willing to shirk this responsibility for the sake of a few thousand plugin users that in 99.9% of cases have another option to access the iPlayer (albeit not their first choice).
They *could* leave their files unprotected, but how many of these TV studios do you think will be willing to license their content in the future if they know the BBC is letting people run wild with it?
I have faith that they will open it up to 3rd party plugins when and if they can. There is no reason for them not to, other than legalities, so we’re just going to have to wait for it to happen. Until then, I’m happy to watch iPlayer on my PC… or my Wii… or Virgin TV… or my nokia phone.
“but how many of these TV studios do you think will be willing to license their content in the future if they know the BBC is letting people run wild with it?”
Did you not consider that the BBC already free-to-air broadcasts this stuff and it’s recorded by probably 100,000’s PVRs every time perfectly legally??
Yes I did, but TV studios have no control over this (as they had no choice if people wanted to VCR programs in the 80-90’s)
But they *do* have a choice about whether they want to allow the BBC to stream their content over the internet.
Do you not think these TV studios would have taken steps to prevent VCR recording if there had been a technical way of doing it?
This doesn’t make the BBC’s stance on giving in to the rights holders any less pathetic given their size and the nature of the BBC as a public entity.
The use of VCRs for recording TV was judged to be legal - not because they couldn’t be technically stopped but because the overwhelming usage of VCRs was judged not be be for infringing copyright (at least this was what the Sony case concluded in the 80’s in the US)
This is not really about the BBC’s ‘legal obligation’ as it’s purely a contractual matter between the BBC and the rights holders. The BBC can/could have chosen to change or renegotiate contracts when they were agreed in the past and future.
“This is not really about the BBC’s ‘legal obligation’ as it’s purely a contractual matter between the BBC and the rights holders.”
Pardon me if I’m misunderstanding, but how can it not not be a question of legality, but still be a question of contractual obligation?
If the BBC sign a contract says they can/can’t do something, it is enforceable by law. Same difference.
Saying can/could means nothing really. Realistically, its not their choice. They just need to hope that the benefits of providing their programmes over a streaming service tempts the content owners into playing ball.
Yes of course contracts are legally enforceable - but then you misunderstood what I said - I was referring to the fact that the contract terms that supposedly prevent the BBC from streaming without DRM should not have be agreed to in the past few years. The BBC are just being spineless in this matter over negotiations with rights holders. The BBC should just say that they are going to allow such streaming and they have to either then not sign the contract or put up with it…
Thanks for backing down, dude!
You, sir, are and idiot. Go troll somewhere else.
Well, I’m ballsed.
Seriously though, thanks for all of your hard work here.
Oh no!!!!
I just came here to mention a little bug/feature, and I found the party is almost over :((
Thanks for all your excellent hard work and for providing me with an iPlayer solution that actually worked on Slackware.
You have earned much good karma, can’t say the same for the Beeb in this matter, grrrhhhhh.
Again, thanks!
“Oh no!!!!” from me too. I just heard about this through my Linux User group. Very disappointing news, expecially as I was just getting to grips with how to use get_iplayer (and loving it). However I respect the developer’s actions in taking get-iplayer down.
How depressing. I only started using get_iplayer because the BBC’s own Adobe Air based “iplayer desktop” software ran so uselessly on my netbook - watching a video would consume 100% of the CPU time, and still stutter horribly. Movies downloaded with get_iplayer play perfectly in VLC and use barely any CPU time at all. I’d be happy to use their official software if they’d make it actually work!
That’s my use case too. I’m sad to see it go.
Thank you for all your hard work on get_iplayer. It’s much appreciated.
(Not willing to admit defeat, I managed to get it working again but it’s probably rather fragile, particularly because my Perl is non-existent.)
Thanks. BTW: It wasn’t broken AFAIK.
I didn’t mean to imply the breakage was in get_iplayer, just that I needed to adjust a couple of things (and switch to the latest rtmpdump) to get things working. Unfortunately my non-existent Perl isn’t up to the job of automating the fix to follow any future changes
Dear Phil,
What can I say! Devastated! Gobsmacked! Stopping development of Get_iPlayer reminds me of grounding Concorde. Your tool is currently streets ahead of what the BBC provides. I think open source software has served an extremely useful function in accelerating the development of iPlayer. They are now talking about ‘prebooking’ and ’season tickets’, tools that Get_iPlayer already has. Just as the downloaders have forced the music industry into retreat over DRM, I think broadcasters will eventually come to the same inevitable conclusion about it. People just want media in a simple, convenient, downloadable format. For example, I love listening to radio programmes in the car on the mp3 player. Sadly, stopping Get_iPlayer will just slow that process down. Whilst I respect your decision and appreciate all the hard work that you’ve put into it, I urge you to think carefully about the message your decision sends to the BBC and Adobe. Do you really want to encourage DRM and closed-source solutions? Do you prefer Linux or Windows? Given your URL, I think I know the answer to that one. All the Best, whatever you decide.
thanks Phil for all your efforts. Craven stupidity by the BBC, combined with axing 6Music the seem out to get me at present!
I’m very sad about this turn of events. Thanks so much for the software, it has been of great use to me, allowing me to watch content in a convenient way. I’m sorry the stance BBC has driven you to this action. I am a great admirer of the work of the BBC and feel it is gives good value for my license fee, at least until now.
I very much resent the implication of the BBC that I am a thief simply because I use open source software. I do not keep the content past its limit and I do not redistribute it. I simply watch it (which is presumably why they made it available in the first place?).
We are now left with their Air / Flash web app (which is preventativly CPU intensive on many systems and relies on the propriatary and badly maintained Adobe flash player.
I currently do not own a television, but paid the licence fee since I felt a duty to support the production of content I enjoyed so much. I shall not be renewing my licence if the BBCs attitude towards accessibility and open source continues.
To everyone: Let the BBC know what you think, write to them, complete the consultation linked previously, write to your MP, comment on relevant BBC website articles, phone in to your local radio / newspaper, etc..
To Phil: Once again, thankyou very much for everything you have done, get_iplayer will be sorely missed, but i fully understand and respect your reasoning for making this decision.
Yes, the thieving implication (see their internet blog post today), is really just reinforcing the BBC view of the open source community being a bunch of pirates and freeloaders - quite ironic in this case. If the comment they chose to publish represents their view then this just means that the BBC believes that all VCR/PVR users are thieves - thanks BBC! I’m already missing get_iplayer too…
Devastated!… Thanks for all the hard work Phil, maybe we’ll see more really great and useful stuff from you again in future. Now I must go and retool my BBC Radio Listen Again solution, ACK!
Let me add my sincere thanks for a really great application. I understand your reasons for ceasing development.
The BBC has to be *seen* to be doing the right thing, even though it makes no logical sense. Consider my home-built MythTV system that will quite happily record 20 Freeview streams simultaneously, TV & radio, in plain old, no-DRM MPEG2. I can keep the programs as long as I like, and transcode into whatever formats are convenient. So it’s plainly easy to (quite legally) circumvent any DRM.
I don’t buy that old chestnut. I would say that the BBC has chosen to be *seen* doing the right thing for their suppliers with little regard for the audience who pays for their existence. Seems that the BBC have lost sight of their remit to serve the public and instead puts the cash into the pockets of their friends, the programme makers, who will in reality lose out despite the fact they are completely deluded, stuck in the 1970’s mindset of broadcast-only TV, and feel such viewing habits and methods harm their income. Or maybe the rights-holders aren’t so deluded and just see this as a way of extorting more public funds out of the BBC. The BBC just needs to stand up, renegotiate agreements and in future get these agreements right.
I don’t disagree at all, but today’s agreements are what they are. I look forward to their renegotiation, because the logic of the current situation does not withstand serious scrutiny.
Nice idea, if only it were optional!
It is optional. Just use iPlayer output and don’t watch any live or near-live broadcasts. Or, just don’t watch any TV
An absolute shock to see get_iplayer finish like this. I for one will be trying to keep the existing code running, as I don’t see this as any kind of infringement on the BBC content I have contributed to. When I can have the HD content through the iPlayer on the device I choose to use it on, then I’ll be done. Until then, viva la get_iplayer.
My only disappointment here is that the code has been taken down (unless I am mistaken). Discontinuing development is one thing, but wiping it out is another.
Sorry you feel that way. I think you need to read the above post again. Remember also that it costs me to sysadmin get_iplayer web servers, forums, hosting, bandwidth, etc, etc. i.e. not free and I never took even a penny of donations and it costs me real money.
I completely understand. I host for projects too, although none will have received even a hint of what get_iplayer has.
Something I foolishly forgot to say was thank you. With not a hint of overstatement, get_iplayer completely changed the way I watch BBC content, and I hope it stays that way while I can keep it running. Sincerely, thank you for all your hard work.
Hi Andy,
For those of us who haven’t a clue about what happens “behind the scenes” or how to keep the existing code running, would you be willing to help us? I’m quite happy to make a contribution to costs. Phil can confirm that I donated to Alzheimers research as he requested.
As I said above, I use get_iPlayer to download Radios 4 and 7 to MP3 files. This is all the functionality I require.
In the cold light of day, and for similar reasons to Phil, I don’t think I’m in a position to do that. It’s one thing to make use of the code personally, but given the BBC’s current approach it would be quite another to host, maintain and redistribute it.
Having said all that, I don’t think that this is the end for get_iplayer. I imagine it will eventually be hosted elsewhere as a more collaborative effort, but we’ll have to let the dust settle and see what comes out the other side.
I really hope that someone is able to take over the development in the not too distant future, but until then what to those of us who don’t have a clue how to code/maintain a programme like this do?
I understand why you wouldn’t want to host/distribute the code at the moment, but there must be a way somehow that those with the knowledge can help those of us who don’t know what we’re doing.
Jeremy,
FWIW, you can still access the Get_iplayer Documentation page at the moment via Google cache and Get_iplayer 2.76 is available via the StrawP website so you can update whatever version you’re running at the moment. I’m running windows and simply substituted the 2.71 .pl file (around 300k) for the 2.76 version. Don’t know how to update the WebPVR element. It would be a shame to completely lose such a fantastic tool. My connection is slow and unreliable and iPlayer stutters horribly on the limited hardware I have. Not everybody has the system resources that iPlayer seems to demand. Get_iPlayer was a lifeline. Thanks to Phil for all his hard work over the years. Shame on you, BBC.
For me, the piece missing from the BBC solution was the ability to make last week’s programmes available to domestic streaming systems (in my case, Squeezebox) without the need to have a computer in every room: One server, lots of players. I had a perfectly good solution using get_iplayer thanks to all the effort and dedication Phil has put in. Now, it will be back to solitary listening to Radio 3 and 4 in the study - the only place I have computers in my house.
Depressing for the BBC not to think through their position in the context of real user requirements.
This survey appears to be closed as of 12th March 2010.
So is there another way to make our distaste at the Beeb’s latest demonstration of stupidity know? Would writing/emailing this Mr Hunter be an option?
Another sad to see Phil discontinue this most excellent (if slightly nerdy - according to SWMBO) project. I sincerely hope someone else takes up the baton (I’d love to do it myself, but in Perl terms I still have stabilisers on my bike)
Phil, just to echo the many folks here - this is/was a superbly useful piece of software, and one I’d be quite happy to pay some dosh for.
Damn those BBC idiots!
I’d go along with that. If i-player were turned into a commercial product, with a licensing arrangement with the BBC to keep it all legal, I too would pay for such a product Yes, get_iplayer is that good.
Phil: Thanks for all your work here. My wife recently bought a TV with freesat but no iplayer. Get-iplayer has allowed us to download to memory stick and watch on the TV. We much enjoyed the Winter Olympics figure skating that was broadcast overnight - without staying up all night.
Many, many thanks to you for your really excellent work and devotion to a cause.
It has been a true honour using get_iPlayer and I salute it with the up most thanks. Hoping that it will return one day and ignite the joy of catch up TV that we will miss in its wake!
Many Thanks
getOpenID
Thanks for all your hard work Phil, my listening wont be the same without your great little program!
Steve
Sorry to hear this go. Lets hope they’ll think straight soon.
Gutted.
Neither of my machines are capable of playing the HD flash streams without tearing and other periodic corruption. I also sometimes hit ‘buffering’ issues. get_iplayer is brilliant because if I use it to download the HD version of a programme both my machines can play back the resulting .mp4 file perfectly.
Thank you for you efforts.